What To Do If America Is Undergoing Irreversible Systematic Breakdown?

The Economies Of Red And Blue America: State Sizes Adjusted To Reflect GDP

http://politicsthatwork.com/graphs/size-red-blue-economy

Friend Elodie Bentley, a retired school teacher: The instant that a protestor engages in vandalism and/or destruction that protestor is no longer a protestor but a looter, a vandal, a criminal. Just my thought....

Alan Archibald

First off,...

I will state my belief that the American revolution was a horrible idea resulting in needless bloodshed, and that if we hadn’t polluted our national wellspring at the source, we would have evolved, as colonial Canada did, into a civilized country.

So, I am wide open to any answer you care to give.

Here is the question.

Were the American revolutionaries, starting with the Boston Tea Party’s destruction of private property , “looters and vandals and criminals?”

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  Elodie Bentley

  
  

  I am sure the British would say so. What did the people of that day say? I have no idea.

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  Alan Archibald

  
  

  I think we can safely say that “one person’s freedom fighter is another person’s vandal/criminal.”

  I’m sure you remember the war in Vietnam when Uncle Sam — with your tax dollars and mine — tried to steer the outcome of a Civil War, and to that end embarked on officially denominated “search and destroy missions.”

  All that destruction, with malice aforethought — routinely killing peasants and burning their homes — served no good purpose.

  Even the domino theory was BS. There was no communist takeover of Southeast Asia when lying dog west Moreland was finally driven out of the country.

  For decades, Vietnam has enjoyed “most favored trading nation” status with the United States.”

  I will venture that in the eyes of God Uncle Sam’s activities in Vietnam were those of vandals and war criminals, not to mention perpetrators of crimes against humanity.

  Having said that, my personal sense is - like yours - that the vandalism and looting witnessed on the fringe of the current uprising, is ill-advised and counterproductive.

  
  

  But I also think that “turning Trump out” requires lots of street activism. And it is in the nature of human beings when they “take to the barricades” to not only do what is necessary, but to sometimes go too far.
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  Allen Sale

  
  

  Replying to Alan Archibald

  , I learned a long time ago that “the victor gets to write the history books” at least for the short term. Had America lost the Revolutionary War, Washington and crew would certainly have been treated as traitors. The same as if the South had won the Civil War, the men whose statues are coming down would be on the front of confederate money.

  
  

  I do not want to think what would be going on if Germany and Japan had won WWII!

  
  

  As I tell my British friends when they lament our gun laws, our system works for us, your system works for you. Two of the great countries in the history of countries. I prefer mine (or I would live there), you prefer yours. I have no intention of changing yours. People here who prefer yours should move there. It’s what I would do. I truly feel like I live in the greatest country in the history of the world. I have no qualm with you feeling the same.

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Alan Archibald Replying to Allen Sale: I agree with much of what you say.

It is true that "history is written by the victors" - although the origin of this phrase is uncertain.

16th president of the Reichstag, founder of the Gestapo, and commander-in-chief of the Luftwaffe, Hermann Göring observed that “Der Sieger wird immer der Richter und der Besiegte stets der Angeklagte sein,” which translates loosely: “The victor will always be the judge, and the vanquished the accused.” https://slate.com/culture/2019/11/history-is-written-by-the-victors-quote-origin.html  (Notably, the 16th president was "informed on 22 April 1945 that Hitler intended to commit suicide, (and) Göring (then) sent a telegram to Hitler requesting permission to assume control of the Reich. Considering his request an act of treason, Hitler removed Göring from all his positions, expelled him from the party, and ordered his arrest.)

Despite our significant measure of agreement, I disagree with your observation that "our system works for us, your system works for you."

In my view, our system no longer works at all, and we are now experiencing systematic breakdown.

Although I am prepared to see whether "the system" can be salvaged or reinvigorated after November's election, I suggest we start thinking about red states and blue states collaborating on dissolution of the "United" States so that these massive political regions (each of them significantly more populous than Russia) have the opportunity to "show what they're really made of."

Ultimately, "the proof is in the pudding."

Let's see, in the crucible of sovereign political experience, which world view -- "the red" or "the blue" -- will prove to be a better way for people to live together.

In politics, perception is reality.

And the perception of blue states by red states is that they are essentially -- and irremediably -- "gangrenous."

Blue states hold a similar view of their red state counterparts but without the eschatological (and theocratic) zeal for end-time "cleansing."

"Frank Zappa Prophesied A Fascist Theocracy. 

Barry Goldwater Agrees"

https://newsfrombarbaria.blogspot.com/2020/07/frank-zappa-prophesied-fascist.html

Polities come to an end.

This inevitability has always proven true.

It was true for every empire: Persia, Greece, Rome, Spain, Great Britain.

I understand that people tend to resist change.

But there comes a time when amputation of a diseased member - even if it's "just" perception of disease -- becomes the political reality.

Alternatively, enforced continuation of a manifestly unworkable union is more likely to end in tragedy than sepaarate, sovereign red and blue constituencies reconstituting themselves according to their perception of "who they are" and then moving forward as polities sharing enough common belief so they can actually compromise with another as a way of resolving differences.

What we currently witness on both sides of Uncle Sam's political aisle are people who consider "the other side" politically, socially and culturally moribund - or even satanic in the view of evangelicals and fundamentalists who comprise America's right-wing Base.

We are living in a time when the "neo-Confederacy" wants to re-litigate the Civil War.

If it becomes clear that our post-election re-alignment is incapable of devising a workable political pact with real compromise as the cornerstone, then it will be best to admit that The Confederacy "won," thus avoiding another Civil War.